tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6454634329009534853.post4194362506434221782..comments2024-03-11T19:41:06.770-07:00Comments on Non-native Bilingualism: Bilingual Play & the 3rd Wheel SyndromeAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05895245202923024753noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6454634329009534853.post-44837866315224434702012-07-18T22:24:19.266-07:002012-07-18T22:24:19.266-07:00Hi Kate, as always, your support and interest here...Hi Kate, as always, your support and interest here is awesome, thank you! I love that you replied while your thoughts were fresh...I find that's when I do my best writing, too. I def. have a hard time with the family, thing, ESP. as Kaya gets older and our conversations are getting longer. I know that all of my family supports this process, yet, there's still that awkward silence on their end as we're talking. I guess I just need to keep the communication lines open, and simultaneously accept that this is simply the way it is right now. <br />So, how did it go after you wrote this comment? Did you notice any change in your actions in play? in interpreting? <br />As for opol, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts here. I recognize that this OPOL thing might not be a forever thing...and at the same time, maybe it will be. AND, something that I'm just thinking about right now...it IS possible, despite what my fears tell me, for two people to switch languages AND still be comfortable with the change. My neighbors are a good example, as they met in German, in high school, and proceeded to have a romantic relationship in that language. Then, they came to the US and switched the language of their relationship. Now, they go back and forth, super smoothly. As I think about it in more detail, noticing the fear but not letting it grip me, I can easily imagine how I might communicating with Kaya about most things in German, as she's older, but like you, maybe there will be certain topics that I'll just choose to address in English...or maybe I'll just code switch more later when i'm less concerned about not 'teaching' her to do that. <br />Thanks so much for allowing me another opportunity to think about this in a different light...I really appreciate it! Look forward to keeping in touch!<br />TamaraAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05895245202923024753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6454634329009534853.post-44724168291132135832012-07-17T18:32:08.280-07:002012-07-17T18:32:08.280-07:00I'm so glad you wrote about this topic, Tamara...I'm so glad you wrote about this topic, Tamara! It's one I struggle with as well. My parents visit a lot in the summer, and I have such a hard time staying in German. It's even harder at monolingual playdates. Of course, I also have the pitfall of not using OPOL, so it's not strange to Aleksander when I do speak English. I think it makes me a little lazy about German sometimes - it's just easier to switch to the majority language. I have noticed that if the conversation is just between me and A. it isn't too hard. I don't mind or feel embarrassed speaking German in front of others. But if, for example, my dad is playing with Aleksander, I don't know how to engage in the play in German. I either switch to English or like you, stay out of it. I'd like to try more of what you do, though: speak German and then translate if/as necessary. We'll see how it goes tomorrow....<br />Your other point - which Sarah has also spoken to - about not speaking your native language is a big part of the reason I chose not to use OPOL. I felt like I'd be giving up some of my own identity if I never spoke English with my children. And as Sarah pointed out, it's going to become more challenging to discuss things with our kids as they mature and their thoughts and language mature, too. I already have trouble staying in German if I want to talk to A. about his behavior or some more complex situation. I suppose the good thing is that these circumstances will not arise all at once. Hopefully there will be time to adjust to their developing vocabulary, so we have time to learn the words we need, too!<br />I hope this wasn't too long-winded! I'm a bit tired for writing at the moment, but I wanted to make sure I replied while my thoughts were somewhat fresh :)<br />Thanks for a wonderful Carnival!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6454634329009534853.post-18970466409347028472012-07-12T22:05:21.022-07:002012-07-12T22:05:21.022-07:00Sarah, what a g
enerous comment, thank you so much...Sarah, what a g<br />enerous comment, thank you so much for taking the time to read and respond. You put it very well--a fun challenge. It's quite curious to consider--though I can hear myself living from the fear--about whether we are shootin' ourselves in the foot. Sometimes I think, or fear rather, that not only may it become challenging for us to communicate in German, but it will be uncomfortable in English, too, after so many years of speaking a different language. My best solace is reminding myself that living in that world of fear does nothing for anyone--and worrying too much, at all really, about the future is silly--since all we have is now. It also helps me to think that--just as my German has gotten immensely better over the past 3.5 years, it will continue to do so...ESP if I start making more efforts to read and watch movies and listen to audio books and (yikes), meet up with native speakers and talk about things that really matter to me...that's what I really need to do. Thanks, Sarah, for getting my mind to go there...I'll get on that!<br />TamaraAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05895245202923024753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6454634329009534853.post-10430221056868894292012-07-12T21:58:57.475-07:002012-07-12T21:58:57.475-07:00Hi! I'm so glad you found my blog, thank you s...Hi! I'm so glad you found my blog, thank you so much for leaving a comment. I'm so curious about your languages...Thai and German and English. How did that come about? I'll have to check out your blog!<br />I agree with your point about it being harder around family--that's for sure. I am no longer concerned with what the general public thinks of our language...it seems pretty commonplace these days, particularly with Spanish and Vietnamese. The more I think about your situation, the more curious I get...thanks so much for posting, I'm excited to be able to learn more about your and your situation through your blog!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05895245202923024753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6454634329009534853.post-57854532314625074252012-07-12T07:41:32.814-07:002012-07-12T07:41:32.814-07:00"But my heart does worry, at times, grows fea..."But my heart does worry, at times, grows fearful that my relationship with my daughter will suffer; that we won't be able to ever communicate to the same extent that we would if it were my native language."<br /><br />You took the words right out of my mouth. Using my non-native French with Griffin (and now Gwyneth) has been a fun challenge for me--and it has made me a better parent because being so deliberate with my words means that I have to pay very close attention to how the kids are understanding and responding.<br /><br />But so far, our exchanges have mostly been about everyday things and the children's books we read together. Now that Griffin is 4.5, we're getting into harder-to-talk-about-but-important issues like bullies on the playground, why people die, why some families don't have places to live, and why his sister doesn't have a penis.<br /><br />I sense that what started out as this "fun challenge" is going to get enormously difficult as my children get older and need to have both parents talk to them about the important stuff.<br /><br />Not to mention that once Griffin starts school, he'll (probably) see that no one else there speaks French!<br /><br />Yikes.<br /><br />Oh, by the way: I LOVE Kaya's definitive answer of "both"!<br /><br />Thanks for sharing this beautiful, thought-provoking post.Sarah @ Baby Bilingualhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13907207816628137938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6454634329009534853.post-43158785120306621832012-07-11T22:37:17.419-07:002012-07-11T22:37:17.419-07:00Hi Tamara, I just found your blog but I haven'...Hi Tamara, I just found your blog but I haven't had much time to look a little further than this post. Very interesting what you bring up - I face the same challenges when I speak Thai and German with our son in public, whether it's at the grocery store, picking him up at the babysitter's house, friends and family around, etc. It is hard, more so when family and friends are around as they are more likely to be involved in a conversation. I was very self conscious at first, however nowadays I don't hesitate speaking the foreign language with our son when we are out and about, because most of the time, others (cashiers, waiters, etc) aren't really involved in our conversation. Sometimes I get looks, but most of the time people might glance quickly and go about their own day. Just like you, I eventually had to tell myself that I can't worry about offending others as the benefits for our child outweighs all the rudeness people may perceive :)<br />When it comes to my husband, I am actually very comfortable only speaking Thai or German with our son at home. I only switch to English when I address my husband. My husband is very supportive of it though, has never said one word about feeling left out which makes it so much easier. As our son got older and started finally talking more, I do have to remind myself not to respond in English back, sometimes I just forget and fall into the common language with him! I'm excited to read more about your background and experience.Considerations https://www.blogger.com/profile/18316927843763686988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6454634329009534853.post-51399056381092421532012-07-11T20:58:28.365-07:002012-07-11T20:58:28.365-07:00Thanks, 'Monkey', for both reading our pos...Thanks, 'Monkey', for both reading our post AND for taking the time to add a thoughtful response. I really appreciate it, and love hearing the feedback. I have tended to avoid the whole 'rude' concept--I think that rude is just a construct of going beyond societal norms. I don't really know what the norm is in our situation, so I don't think that there is a norm that I'm going beyond. Even moreso, I've just decided that Kaya will benefit so much from this whole bilingual thing that I can't worry about offending people--leaving them out, yes. Them being offended by our choice, no. And like you said, I don't think most people (if any) are (maybe strangers). As you said, most people are quite curious...thanks again!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05895245202923024753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6454634329009534853.post-5435655270837916292012-07-11T20:08:27.140-07:002012-07-11T20:08:27.140-07:00Really great post - very thought-provoking! We of...Really great post - very thought-provoking! We often worry about the same thing, if we are excluding others when we talk to our son in a language they don't understand. So far most people don't seem to think it is rude, although we feel uncomfortable. Instead, most others seem to find it fascinating and often ask how much our son understands of each language and so on. Depending on the situation, they often do ask what we are talking about, and we are happy to translate. And sometimes we bend the rules and talk in the common language. But I think it would be really hard if my partner did not understand what I was saying, so that's great that your husband now understands German. Thanks for sharing! I look forward to seeing what others have to say!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com